Posts

Showing posts from August, 2022

Fantastic Mr. Fox

⭐ 8.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) After spending all weekend with Mat, I just had to watch his favorite movie! I watched this when it came out and remember thinking I didn't like it because it wasn't funny or entertaining but instead was just weird. Turns out it's not really for kids! It is indeed weird, but now I feel I can appreciate it for its weirdness. While it's never laugh-out-loud funny, it is super quirky and odd and likeable. The art direction is the real appeal here with this cool, colourful stop-motion stuff, as well as some nice performances with a loaded cast. It never really gets too deep or emotional, and the creators were almost definitely on drugs, but it's a nice warm movie for a Sunday night.

The Low Light Sessions - Mitchell Tenpenny

⭐ 8.5/10 (Originally written by Beans) Just a solid country album. Tenpenny has such a distinct raspy voice and this album is just so easy to listen to. It’s got 8 tracks singing of love, Jesus and politics. It’s intimate and full of heart. My fave tracks are Horseshoes and Hand Grenades, Don’t Make Me Choose, and The Way You Are.

Bullet Train

⭐ 7.0/10 (Originally written by Beans) This is an American made movie based off a Japanese book and I can’t help but believe it would’ve been better had it been a Japanese made movie. It stars Brad Pitt with a bunch of other A-list actors all trying to get a brief case of money and make it off the bullet train alive. I thought some of the shots were really cool, but the plot was just a let down. The dialogue was cheap and sloppy, the gags weren’t even funny, and the big reveals were not shocking. George was asleep for most of this movie if that’s any indication. There were however some cool action scenes and the highlight for me was Bad Bunny who had such a minor role but I just love him.

Nathan for You (season 1)

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) So I didn't love the Rehearsal, but I do feel like it helped give me the courage to go back and finish a season of Nathan for You. I really do think this is one of the funniest shows ever made, and by far the most painful. So it's essentially a reality show where Nathan goes around pretending to be a smart businessman that wants to help small businesses succeed. But he gives the most wretched, ridiculous advice you've ever seen and we see how it all plays out, and they always begin to spiral. Like in one episode, he creates a poop flavored ice cream at an ice cream shop to get people talking. So the reason I like this show better than the Rehearsal is that it cranks the awkwardness to eleven and just when you think he won't do anything worse, he thinks of another hell to put the audience through. Like his other stuff, he's still a "character" in this show, but the focus is still putting others in a hilarious situatio...

The Rehearsal

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) Don't let other reviews confuse you - this show is a 10/10 masterpiece, and there has never been another show like it. Nathan Fielder is a genius and has my undying support - from Nathan For You to producing How To With John Wilson to this, the Nathan-Verse is consistent in its programming and unflinching in its view of the world. Nathan has always been about putting random people in unusual circumstances, and this show is no exception - what if you could rehearse all the most difficult moments of your life? The first episode is amazing, introducing you to this guy that gets a chance to rehearse an upcoming confrontation to get some guilt off his conscience. The planning is more elaborate than you can possibly imagine, down to reconstructing his trivia bar in a warehouse with an insane level of detail. Very quickly we move on to another woman who wants to rehearse being a mom. We move her to a fake ranch with fake gardens and give her a son tha...

The Rehearsal

⭐ 6.5/10 (Originally written by Joseph) I have a huge love-hate with Nathan Fielder because I never laugh so hard as when I'm watching his stuff, but also most of it is unwatchable due to secondhand embarrassment. I die any time I watch Nathan for You, but also I haven't even finished a season because it physically pains me to watch that show. This show is a little easier on the nerves, but unfortunately that means it's also not as funny. There is still some incredible highs, but honestly I only had those laughing meltdowns in the first and last episode as far as I can remember. Otherwise, it's a pretty painful show to watch all for some moderate laughs. These shows are really all about how much pain you are willing to tolerate, and it just wasn't quite worth it here. As far as the emotional moments go, I have never ever felt anything close to genuine emotion while watching this because it all just feels so fake and uncomfortable. However, the last episode did make ...

The Boys (Season 3)

⭐ 8.5/10 (Originally written by Tim) While I think this show is getting better, I still can't say I love it. This season really doubles down on paralleling real world politics, with Homelander and his followers basically becomes Trump and the far-right, but honestly I loved that part. Homelander is still the star of this show, and he becomes even more deep and important and this season. The way they use his powers and the way the actor controls his face is just so unsettling and scary and feels true to what it would be like if someone like him existed. Again, I think the episodes are too long, and the explicit stuff too over-the-top. I could not care less about Frenchie and Kimiko, and they have so much time together this season that was so boring. I am just very uninterested in these hero dynamics, like what happens if a super hero loses power? What if a human gains power? What if super heroes were enslaved? So many plot points revolve around uninteresting and well-trodden super h...

Mad Ship (The Liveship Traders 2) - Robin Hobb

⭐ 9.5/10 (Originally written by Tim) I loved the first book, and this one builds on everything it set up. The universe is ever growing, with myths unfolding before your eyes, and I loved every page of it. I can't really describe any plot details, and honestly this book sounds corny when I talk about it out loud, but I am completely bought in. My main takeaway in this book was just the entertaining and satisfying arcs of basically all the characters. Characters I hated last book and grown into ones I think of fondly now. Characters I thought were sly and cool are now disgusting. Hobb has done an amazing job of character growth and change, and all of it feels earned and natural. I thought the Farseer trilogy was fleshed out and colourful, but I think this trilogy is already better than that first one. I also appreciate the continued growth on themes of slavery, patriarchy, all the issues the world loves to talk about. There are thematically satisfying connections between all the char...

Death on the Nile

⭐ 6.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) I will admit that the mystery in this movie was entertaining, but my goodness this movie is painful to look at. The CGI and green-screening is so terrible, I can't believe a real big-budget studio would put out something that looks so bad. Just go to a dessert! Hollywood is basically in the middle of one! I was thinking a lot about Knives Out while watching, and while that is a much much better movie I found the final reveals of both to bit unsatisfying. Part of it is predictability, but maybe its just that mystery is entertaining until you know whodunnit. My main takeaway from this movie is that Gal Gadot is not a good actor. She is completely wooden in this, and there are some romantic/seduction scenes that are so cringey I was crawling out of my skin. She is the star of the movie, and just completely not engaging. No disrespect to Christie, I'm sure the book is great and the sprawl of characters coherent and compelling. But this mov...

Better Call Saul (Season 6)

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) This final season, and an absolute masterpiece of a season of TV. Beautiful to look at and listen to, there isn't a show that has better production value. This season features a ton of black and white, and not only is it thematically resonant, it also looks amazing. I could go on forever about this being the best looking show on TV. This is the final season, and like Breaking Bad this show absolutely crushes the finale. All the threads come to immensely satisfying conclusions, and it leaves a lot of time for things to run their natural course. There are white-knuckle action scenes, but many more impactful scenes just of characters reckoning with their actions. The writing here is top notch, and everything just feels perfect for each character. Some truly devastating endings for characters, as well as a couple hopeful ones. I've had an up and down relationship with this show, mainly the first couple seasons are quite boring, but these last 2...

An Absolutely Remarkable Thing - Hank Green

⭐ 9.5/10 (Originally written by Rebecca) I'm wayyy behind on my weviews, but since I finally finished another book, I thought I might as well get this one down. Maggie and I read this one together, and Maggie recommended it because it's a sort of modern sci-fi story about robots, one of my favourite things to read about. It is, to be exact, about a young woman who is the first person on earth to come into contact with a mysterious robot statue(?) that has suddenly appeared on the streets of New York, and, as they later find out, in 63 more of the world's biggest cities. It's an utterly fascinating story about humanity and how it handles huge, world-altering news, especially in the modern day of technology and instant communication, and it's also about individual people's experiences with fame and huge amounts of sudden attention. These themes were ESPECIALLY interesting coming from a) the standpoint of living in the wake of an ACTUAL world-changing event (the bo...

Game Night

⭐ 9.5/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Just a totally random comedy I'd never heard of that Jess somehow unearthed (just looking it up, it looks like it did quite well, so I don't know how I missed it). That's almost never a promising start to a movie, but this one was really, really great. We were dying throughout most of it. It's got a funny, unique premise, a great cast, interesting twists, and then one of the single greatest comedic performances by Jesse Plemons who I guess is just good at everything. I really have nothing more to say. It's a fantastic, well-rounded comedy. It's got many elements of a murder-mystery, so if that sounds like your jam, make sure you put this one on your list.

Barry (Season 3)

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Another great season of one of the best shows I've watched. It remains hilarious, intense, engaging and in a lot of ways, pretty artsy in ways I appreciate. Some really cool shooting here and unique acting performances that I really liked. I'm really curious where the show goes from here. I'm not sure how the stakes could be made higher, but I've got complete faith in the people behind this show. Sally's arc was really great here and she's kinda turned into the most interesting character. Noho Hank remains a delight, but I wish his character was baked into the actual show and not just doing sidequests somewhere else. This was nearly a perfect season though I do think 2 was slightly better. Episode 6 was my highlight, both funniest and craziest.

The Space Between Worlds - Micaiah Johnson

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) Cara is a Traveler, someone who journeys to parallel worlds to gather information. But Travelers can only go to worlds where their parallel selves have died, and luckily her other selves seem to have died a lot. But it turns out Cara might not be who we think she is, and her employers might be lying about what her purpose is. This is a book where you think you know what it's about, but the plot just gets deeper and deeper as you learn more about this future and semi-dystopian world. I don't always like books about the multiverse, but this one handled it in a way that made sense to me, and that asked deep questions about privilege and nature vs. nurture. High-concept sci-fi that I thought the author pulled off really well.

Sword of Destiny - Andrzej Sapkowski

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Beans) This is technically book 2 of the Witcher series but just like the last book another collection of short stories. There were a lot of fun stories in this one that I really enjoyed and they set up the proper storyline too. I have only ever read The Hobbit by Tolkien but it’s so clear where Sapkowski gets his inspiration from. The world is large and the monsters are scary. But the heroes are noble and strong and funny and witty! I love Geralt and think he is such a well written character. He is definitely not faultless and yet he can do no wrong in my eyes. Low key but high key love Yennifer and that romance. Ya they’re toxic but so am I! A lot of talk of destiny which I really love actually. The ending, I think, set up the main story line well and I really really loved the relationship dynamics between Ciri and Geralt. While I am excited to read the rest of the series eventually, I think it will have to take the backseat for a little while now unti...

The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings

⭐ 8.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) The greatest thing a big time fan can hope for is a solid adaptation of their favorite things. I consider myself blessed beyond measure for living in a time where I can read LOTR, watch the amazing movies, and play in the universe online. I have given up hope on a good Witcher TV adaptation, but my goodness did we get games that are not only good, but perfectly true to the source. Now, with that said, Witcher 2 is old. It felt a lot like playing through Red Dead 1 before getting to experience 2. There are all the makings of a great game, but they don't become fully realized until the technology catches up a bit later on. So in terms of bad, there are plenty. First off, the combat just kinda sucks, and that's pretty important for a game like this. It just feels clunky, unfair, and unpredictable. I played on hard which was a mistake because the controls aren't tight enough to gain a sense of mastery. Also, there are annoying quirks like...

Pan's Labyrinth

⭐ 5.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Not really sure what to say about this one. It's universally acclaimed and lots of people consider it among their favorites. I guess I just didn't get it. For me, it was similar to watching anime where it's weird, confusing, and maybe I just don't appreciate non-"western" media. I have watched a few del Toro movies before and thought the same thing. Not sure which audience this is for because most of it feels a lot like a kids movie, but also it's rated R and has some of the yuckiest violence I've ever seen. It also feels like two very different and distinct movies slapped together. So I dunno. I didn't like watching this, but maybe the magic will effect me some day down the road. It's definitely got some cool and unique elements, interesting effects, and if I try really hard, I can maybe understand why someone would love this movie. But I mostly thought it was too weird for me.

Severance (Season 1)

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) What a season of TV! My favourite new show without a doubt, this one scratches that Lost itch in a way I really needed. The show is pretty high concept, and I love that about it. It revolves around this company, Lumon, that does super secretive work. So secretive that it has a branch of employees that are voluntarily severed - when they enter their office they have no memory of their life outside the office, and when they leave they have no memory from inside the office. It essentially splits them in to two people. So there is the intrigue of asking why someone would do that to themselves, but we see their work inside and it is so obscure, so what is Lumon even accomplishing!? The set design here is great. The office is blindingly white and soul-sucking, with terrible rewards for their work that the "innies" love for some reason. The halls are a labyrinth that they don't seem concerned by, and the overseers are creepily pleasant...

The Boys (Season 2)

⭐ 8.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) A definite step up, this season we spend a lot more time with the super heroes and it really pays off. Homelander is just so so villainous, and pairing him with a new villain really raises the stakes. I still think the episodes are way too long. All the time we spend with the "The Boys" is always kind of boring to me, especially since the corporate involvement and political storylines are so engaging. There is a lot this season that feels ripped from the headlines, and honestly I like their spin on it. They also up their game in terms of head explosions, and it just makes me roll my eyes now. We get it, you guys have a huge budget and can try to shock us every episode. I am intrigued with where this show is headed, and I love seeing Homelander go off the deep end, although part of me wonders why he doesn't just snap and kill literally everyone. Speaking of deep, The Deep's redemption arc is actually hilarious and I love the p...

Spiderman: No Way Home

⭐ 6.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) When watched outside of the hype cycle this is a completely forgettable movie. The first hour and a half are so incredibly boring with what feels like no stakes, so we turned it off and watched the second half the next day. Things get better when the other Peter's show up, but my goodness every character with the quippy rapid dialogue, just calm down. The best part was the 2 older Peters cracking eachother's backs. I also appreciated the chance for Andrew Garfield to shine. But for the most part this all just felt like fan service. Seeing Tobey Maguire as Spiderman the first time was one of the most formative movie-going experiences for me but they gave him basically nothing do to. Like most Marvel movies, this one ends with a massive CGI battle on an island so we can blow up everything around us and nobody gets hurt. I did not understand what the villains were trying to accomplish, and honestly just kind of felt numb throughout the whol...

Spider-Man: Miles Morales

⭐ 8.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) This was a perfectly pleasant game to play, with a short enough play-through time that it didn't wear out its welcome. The standout in this game is clearly the traversal - swinging around New York City never felt so good, and I loved all the freedom it gave you. The combat is also excellent, very fluid and creative, with some very cool finisher animations that seamlessly move you from a cool cutscene back to the action. For all the great fighting, I thought the goons you fight were pretty boring and repetitive. The first ten minutes of the game is the best boss fight of the whole thing, and it never quite gets back to that. Reminds me a lot of the Batman Arkham games, where I just wanted more unique bosses and villains to flex my muscles against. The story in this game had me rolling my eyes the entire time. Literally ever person in Miles' life has super powers, or its his genius hacker best friend, or its his politician mom who is figh...

This is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch - Tabitha Carvan

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) There is a lot about Benedict Cumberbatch in this book, but I didn't mind. This book is partly a memoir about how the author, a normal, Australian wife and mother of two, found herself unexpectedly and inexplicably becoming obsessed with Benedict Cumberbatch. She finds herself scrolling pictures of him for hours, reading fanfiction, and connecting with fellow Cumberbitches of all ages, confused and uncomfortable about who she has become. But this is just a jumping off point for her to discuss not only people who are obsessed with Benedict Cumberbatch, but just people loving things in general. A focus is on girls and women loving things, and how the world looks down on fangirls, fanfiction readers/writers, and women pursuing interests, and has done throughout history. And it's also about owning up to what you love and embracing it, and letting yourself find joy in just liking something. I can relate to the author a lot, because althoug...

We Were Dreamers- Simu Liu

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) This is Simu Liu's memoir about going from being taken care of by his grandparents in China to landing the role of Shang-Chi in the biggest movie franchise in Hollywood. I don't consider myself a particular fan of his, although I did like him in Kim's Convenience, and was more interested in his story of what it's like as an Asian-Canadian actor. He discusses his parents' stories, which I appreciated, as they play a big role in his story as growing up as an immigrant family. It's a pretty wild story, since it was only in 2012 that he got fired from his accounting job with absolutely no acting experience, and in less than ten years landed this huge role. Simu is clear about his own failings, and doesn't hold back about the realities of growing up with abusive, demanding parents who sacrificed everything for him, a kid who skipped classes and just wanted to play X-Box. He seems like a great guy (although I'm sure I...

Ace - Angela Chen

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) This is a book about asexuality, written by an asexual person, and what it says about society and the way we view sex and love. It defines asexuality, of course, and the whole spectrum of what that can mean. I learned a lot about the history of asexuality, sexual desire, and the intersection with gender, disability, romantic vs. platonic love, and more. Very interesting and beneficial, whether for someone who might be on the ace spectrum or not. I especially liked the way it addressed questions about what the difference is between desire and love, a crush and platonic love, friendship and committed platonic partners. Much to think about.

Demon Slayer (season 1)

⭐ 8.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) This anime is breaking records all over the world, so I finally checked it out. It's about a young boy named Tanjiro, whose whole family gets killed by a demon, except for a sister who gets turned into a demon herself. He goes on a journey to become a demon slayer, find out who killed his family, and turn his sister back into a human. It's dark and bloody, and some of the demons he encounters are truly creepy. It's a pretty standard anime hero journey, where the MC needs to become the very best there ever was and is able to achieve anything through the power of love/friendship. I'm not totally sure why it has inspired such fervour, but I enjoyed it enough to check out season 2 eventually.

Belle

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) I'm always looking for movies that will give me similar vibes as Pride and Prejudice, and this one actually succeeded! It's based on a true story, about a half-Black woman who was raised as a gentlewoman in the late 1700s by a judge who played a big part in the abolition of slavery. The setting and costumes are gorgeous, and learning more about this part of history was great, especially when I found out how true to history several scenes were. The romance isn't as central to the plot as in P&P, but it was still sweet and compelling.

The Sea Beast

⭐ 7.0/10 (Originally written by Magdalene) I watched this rip-off of How to Train Your Dragon a few weeks ago and forget almost everything except how cute the little girl main character was. An inoffensive watch, but mostly just reminded me how good HTTYD is.

Finding Neverland

⭐ 8.5/10 (Originally written by Joseph) A classic from my poster that I'd never watched before. Johnny Depp, featuring a beautiful Scottish accent, plays the writer of Peter Pan as he befriends a group of kids that eventually inspire the play. Johnny Depp is married, so it's quite unfortunate that the children's mother is Kate Winslet, who I, in fact, would discard my wife for in a heartbeat. I really liked this one. I definitely think the way Depp's character treats his wife is awful, but aside from that I think this movie is full of charm and sweetness. It's really carried by it's performances because otherwise this movie wouldn't be all that interesting. But Depp is so sexy here, Winslet so angelic, and then of course a great performance by the child prodigy Freddie Highmore who can cry real tears. Nobody is a bigger hater of children than me, but I will admit this movie was a very nice reminder of a child's innocence, creativity and spontaneity. I wa...

Malcolm in the Middle (season 7)

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Boy I am truly and sincerely sad to be done this show. What started as a one-episode nostalgia chase turned into summer-long love affair. I really didn't think I'd love it, but can confidently say that this is seven full seasons of pure genius with very little slippage as you go along. Again, this was a fantastic season. They didn't really know this show was getting cancelled, so the finale doesn't quite have that emotional punch, but there is definitely some feeling of closure and I'm happy about that. Burning Man, Lois Strikes Back, Jessica Stays over... There are some classics here! Some episodes this season that can compete with anything in the show. I was also happy to read about what a huge influence this show had on modern sitcoms. Dropping the laugh track, the cold open and characters talking to the camera were all a big deal back then! I love the lower-middle class stuff, love the power tripping mom, love the aloof d...

Source Code

⭐ 7.5/10 (Originally written by Joseph) This is again a cool early 2010s movie I hadn't really heard of that I wish I had. The premise is Jake Gyllenhaal involved in a secret military operation where his consciousness is shifted to another person so that he can help prevent terrorist attacks. It's a cool little sci-fi twist with lots more twists as you go along, always keeping you guessing and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. It's great, and I really feel like I can't say too much without spoiling stuff, so all I'll say is it was a nice sci-fi entry with a unique flavor. I thought some of the deeper moments didn't connect with me, and I also think the ending kinda worked too nicely and didn't allow for what could have been some intriguing conflict (the ending is totally not what one would expect). It combines some pretty popular scientific theories with some popular pseudo-science theories and I'm not totally sure it all worked for me, but...

The Boys (Season 1)

⭐ 7.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) I keep seeing how amazing season 3 of this has been, but i was always resistant to this show. Another take on super heroes, but ultra gritty and violent? Thanks, but no thanks. But then, all it took was a 2 hour flight delay for me to give it a try, and even though i don't love it I can see it has potential. I do like the dynamic of super heroes being bad guys, and then those bad guys being controlled by a corporation. We follow a goodie-two-shoes supe who gains entry into the esteemed 7, and her chippy heroism gets eroded when she realizes that they are all just puppets. I think this season could have been 2 episodes shorter, and the episodes feel very long, but when we are with the supes I really like it. What I don't love is the main plot, a guy who has been wronged by one of the 7 seeks revenge and teams up with a gang of normal people going after the heroes. This is the main plot, but the inner-workings of the supes is way more intere...

Cuphead

⭐ 9.0/10 (Originally written by Tim) This game was on my wishlist for a long time, and then once I finally got it it took me around 8 months to beat. I really loved this game, but you have to be in a self-punishing mood to play, which for me means on an airplane. This game is a 2D boss rush combined with some platforming. What sets it apart is the animation style, which is incredible. Every frame is hand drawn, and the bosses are so intricate that sometimes I will die just to see the cool animation it will do. This game probably took so long to make, and the effort makes it all the better. The score is also great, with a jazzy big band feel that makes the many deaths a bit less frustrating. They just released DLC, and I will probably take a break before jumping into that, but right when I finished I instantly went back and got perfect scores against the earlier bosses. I love games that teach you how to play it without your character leveling up, and I am excited to keep playing t...

The Lost City

⭐ 6.5/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Truly the most average summer comedy you'll ever see. I don't even mean that in a bad way. It doesn't break new ground, and none of the jokes are memorable at all, but it's definitely an enjoyable 2 hours. I love a good tropical treasure hunt movie, along the lines of Uncharted or Indian Jones, and this was a solid one. A couple added points for some great Brad Pitt, minus a few points cuz I hate Channing Tatum's face. Also the romance/ personal moments are bad. Don't bother trying! They're unnecessary!

Children of Men

⭐ 10.0/10 (Originally written by Joseph) Normally when I watch a movie, it's been on my list for a while or comes highly recommended. Yet somehow I'd never even heard of this one. Then I randomly saw a 3 minute clip on social media and had to watch it the same day. I know it sounds kinda lame, but the cinematography in that one clip was so good that I was instantly hooked. I didn't notice until the credits, but the director is Alfonso Cuaron who has made some of my favorite movies (Roma, Gravity) and then the cinematography was done by Emmanuel Lubezki who has done a bunch of movies known best for just that (Birdman, Revenant). I truly have no idea how this movie slipped below my radar. Plus this movie is under my favorite genre, the post-apocalypse(ish) and uses my favorite archetypes of the hesitant guide?! This movie really was made for exactly me, made in what I believe to be the best era of movies (early 2000s). So anyways, I had a phenomenal time watching this one. It...

The Lead - FLO

⭐ 9.5/10 (Originally written by Beans) FLO is an all girl R&B trio. They are incredibly reminiscent of Destiny’s Child and that early 2000s sound but at the same time following in the path of modern acts like Chloe x Halle. The production on these songs sound so fresh and clean. The lyrics are clever and snappy. The beats go hard. These girls are confident and know what they want - and they’re gonna get it. This EP is just short of a 10 because it is only 5 tracks and I don’t think it has the longevity to prove it’s a 10. But I don’t think it has to. This album is their debut onto the music scene and they have created a fan out of me. Very excited to see where this group goes!